Marcel Bootsman 🇪🇺 1:24 pm on July 6, 2018

Local WordCamps in The Netherlands – Our experiences

In recent conversations with Hugh Lashbrooke, WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. organizers Remkus de Vries, Taco Verdonschot, Sjoerd Blom and Marcel Bootsman from The Netherlands shared their experiences. This is a summary of these experiences.

History

The first WordCamp in The Netherlands was in 2009. After that, five more WordCamps were organised, skipping 2011 and 2013 (because of the first WordCamp Europe in Leiden). During the last editions there was a discussion with WordCamp CentralWordCamp Central Website for all WordCamp activities globally. https://central.wordcamp.org includes a list of upcoming and past camp with links to each., now Called WordPress Community SupportWordPress Community Support WordPress Community Support PBC is a Public Benefit Corporation, created specifically to be the financial and legal support for WordCamps, WordPress Meetup groups, and any additional “official” events organized within the WordPress Community Events program., about organizing local, city-based WordCamps in The Netherlands in favor of just one WordCamp The Netherlands.

Having organized six local WordCamps in The Netherlands, we were not sure if multiple WordCamps in The Netherlands was a good plan, also from a continuity point of view. In this post we share our experiences.

Local WordCamps

We’ve managed to organize a total of 4 local, city based WordCamps in the Netherlands so far. In 2017, two local WordCamps were organized, Nijmegen and Utrecht, followed by Noord-Nederland and Rotterdam in 2018. Currently Nijmegen and Utrecht are planned for 2018. Rotterdam and Noord-Nederland are in early planning phase for repeats.

WordCamp The Netherlands

The last WordCamp The Netherlands was in 2016. With a large increase of attendees (from 240 in 2015 to 407 in 2016) we managed to organize the largest WordCamp in The Netherlands ever, and bring the community together on a three-day event.

Difficulties with local WordCamps

With WordCamp The Netherlands, we offered the community a clear schedule, every year the community comes together on this nationwide event. Attendees, sponsors, speakers and volunteers could plan ahead for this one WordPress event in The Netherlands.

With the local WordCamps we are experiencing the following challenges:

Difficulties finding sponsors
Sponsors were used to reserve a budget that they could use for one event, WCNL. In the current situation the sponsors need to divide that budget between four WordCamps, and also have the disadvantage of a smaller number of attendees, further lowering the ROI.
Attendees find it difficult to choose
With the increased amount of WordCamps in The Netherlands, and in surrounding countries, we have heard from attendees that they find it hard to make a choice how to fit the WordCamps in their schedule, as there are quite some WordCamps in the area nearby (including Belgium and Germany). This puts pressure on the amount of people who can attend, which in its turn affects the willingness to sponsor these WordCamps.
Speakers have to choose
Getting speakers to apply to speak at a WordCamp is a challenge in itself. When there are multiple WordCamps in the same small geographical region, this limits the possibilities for speakers to find a good fit in their calendar.
Volunteers
A WordCamp relies on volunteers to run smoothly. When these volunteers need to make a decision on which WordCamp in The Netherlands they will attend, we expect to have trouble finding enough volunteers. Onboarding new volunteers is something that has high priority.
Financials under pressure
Looking at the budgets and financial results of the four local WordCamps, we have to conclude that these are under pressure as well. A big loss for Rotterdam and small profits for the other WordCamps show us that for the next editions it could become more and more difficult to get a healthy financial result for all of them.
Target audiences
With having multiple WordCamps in The Netherlands, we have a challenge to not make these WordCamps copies of each other. They need to be unique and have an overlap in target audiences. Only then will it be possible to have continuity with Dutch WordCamps on a regular, yearly basis.

Conclusion

Given the experience we’ve gathered over the last 9 years, we think there is still a need for a nationwide WordCamp in The Netherlands. However, it has to offer the target audience something that local WordCamps do not offer, and it has to fit in the already busy WordCamp schedule in and around The Netherlands. Again, we’re a geographically small country (see map here). Additionally, to make a WordCamp The Netherlands interesting for sponsors, the number of attendees should be interesting enough to offer these sponsors a better ROI.

Regarding the local WordCamps, we have seen quite a large number of people attend a local WordCamp for the first time.

Credits

This post is written by Marcel Bootsman (@mbootsman), and is based on input/feedback from Remkus de Vries (@defries), Taco Verdonschot (@tacoverdo) and Sjoerd Blom (@vertizio). Other members from the Dutch (and Belgian) WordPress community also gave their opinion about the current WordCamp setup: Monique Dubbelman (@boemedia), Benoit Gütz (@buxert), Bas Brader (@basbrader), Ruben Zwiers (@rubsel), Jeroen Rotty (@jeroenrotty), Wendy Weel (@wendyweel), Taeke Reijenga (@taeke), Simon van der Steen (@simonvdsteen), Luc Princen (@lucp). Thanks all!

Chantal Coolsma 1:34 pm on July 6, 2018

Maybe an addition to above. We also have multiple WordPress meetupsMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. in The Netherlands. For example Nijmegen and Rotterdam have a meetupMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. multiple times a year. This in total makes it a lot of WordCamps and meetups. Result: attendees skipping WordCamps/meetups.
- Remkus de Vries 1:37 pm on July 6, 2018
  
  Yeah. I remember @tacoverdo sharing a ratio number that if the US had as many WordCamps as The Netherlands has per capita, they would need about 1500 WordCamps per year. And that’s indeed excluding WordPress MeetupsMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook..
  - Chantal Coolsma 1:46 pm on July 6, 2018
    
    I don’t know how active all these meetupsMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. are:
    
    https://nl.wordpress.org/community/meetups/
    
    Leiden, Heerhugowaard, Rotterdam, Nijmegen are very active.
Hugh Lashbrooke 1:41 pm on July 6, 2018

Thanks for posting this Marcel (and the rest of the team)!

Marcel, when I chatted with you, as well as Taco, you both shared a number of very positive effects that the local camps have had on the overall WordPress community in the country – could you perhaps share some of those?

I think it’s great that the local camps have been happening and the number of local meetupsMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. have been growing, but some more of the positive things that we spoke about would be really great to see 🙂
- Marcel Bootsman 1:48 pm on July 6, 2018
  
  I’ve added ‘Regarding the local WordCamps, we have seen quite a large number of people attend a local WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. for the first time.’
  
  Waiting for more positive things from the organizers.
  - Remkus de Vries 1:58 pm on July 6, 2018
    
    I’d argue that the Events Dashboard widgetWidget A WordPress Widget is a small block that performs a specific function. You can add these widgets in sidebars also known as widget-ready areas on your web page. WordPress widgets were originally created to provide a simple and easy-to-use way of giving design and structure control of the WordPress theme to the user. is a big help in this by the way and I’d be curious what more we could achieve with it when we start optimizing it.
  - Hugh Lashbrooke 2:04 pm on July 6, 2018
    
    Getting more first-time attendees is a big deal, so thanks for adding that in!
    
    We also spoke about how you are getting more first-time speakers as well and that, generally speaking, the switch to local WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. has had a overall positive effect on the Dutch WP community.
    
    I’d also like to clarify that if we were to do a WordCamp The Netherlands again (which I do agree sounds like a good idea) it would not replace the local camps, but would run alongside and complement them. The point of any regional camp is to inspire local communities to start, grow and flourish, not to remove the need for them, so that’s important to highlight and remember 🙂
    - Chantal Coolsma 2:11 pm on July 6, 2018
      
      We had a little discussion about that on our Dutch SlackSlack Slack is a Collaborative Group Chat Platform https://slack.com/. The WordPress community has its own Slack Channel at https://make.wordpress.org/chat/.. Most people and organizers seem to prefer switching years. So one year WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. NL, next year local WordCamps, and so on.
      - Hugh Lashbrooke 11:57 am on July 7, 2018
        
        Marcel did mention that, which is something we will need to chat about and decide on. I get where you’re coming from though, so it’s definitely an option worth exploring.
      - Dave Loodts 8:40 am on July 10, 2018
        
        Like this option a lot!
jrf 4:35 pm on July 6, 2018

As an attendee and speaker at WordCamps (in The Netherlands), I find the amount of WordCamps in NL at this moment total overkill.

While I applaud that the city-based WordCamps attract new attendees, I am not so sure that can be attributed to the fact that they are city-based. I find it far more likely that the Dashboard widgetWidget A WordPress Widget is a small block that performs a specific function. You can add these widgets in sidebars also known as widget-ready areas on your web page. WordPress widgets were originally created to provide a simple and easy-to-use way of giving design and structure control of the WordPress theme to the user. has something to do with this.

Additionally, with all the meetupsMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. already being held in NL, the city-based WordCamps fragment the community even more.

What made WCNL so valuable – and what I dearly miss at this moment – is that it brought a significant amount of people of the Dutch WordPress community in the Netherlands together at one event.
- Rian Rietveld 6:19 pm on July 6, 2018
  
  I agree with everything @jrf says.
  
  Also, as a speaker, you have to choose, you can’t speak at all Dutch WordCamps. And that means missing out on WordCamps and on audience. One central WCNL you can plan for and then you know everyone of the Dutch community will be there.
  We’re just a too small country for many city named WordCamps.
  - Hugh Lashbrooke 11:46 am on July 7, 2018
    
    And that means missing out on WordCamps and on audience
    
    What I see when I read that is that there are more people attending WordCamps around the country (and therefore more people joining the WordPress community), which means you can’t get to know or meet all of them – and that’s a great thing! More people joining WordPress is better for all of us and benefits the entire community.
Peter Nemcok 11:16 am on July 7, 2018

We think the switch from national WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. to local WordCamp was a good move. We had 3 smaller local WordCamps in Slovakia (a bit bigger by area, only 1/3 in the population) instead on one national. We must deal with a very similar challenges but I think the biggest advantage is that for 70%+ attendees the local WordCamp is their first WordCamp.
- Hugh Lashbrooke 11:38 am on July 7, 2018
  
  If switching to local camps gets more first-time attendees and introduces more people to WordPress, then in my mind that’s a big win for local communities as well as WordPress as a whole – that on its own makes this kind of switch entirely worthwhile.
Hugh Lashbrooke 3:06 pm on July 7, 2018
Just to add some numbers to all of this in terms of attendees at these WordCamps:
- WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. The Netherlands 2016 (the last one we had), sold 449 tickets.
- The 4 local WordCamps in the Netherlands have sold 851 tickets combined
- Of those, 603 were unique individuals.
- There were 904 unique individuals attending WordCamp The Netherlands 20186 and the four local WordCamps combined.
That means:
- There was increase of 154 attendees for the local WordCamps over the last WordCamp The Netherlands.
- There were 455 unique individuals who attended the four local WordCamps who did not attend WordCamp The Netherlands 2016.
We obviously can’t say how many of those sales can be attributed to the events widgetWidget A WordPress Widget is a small block that performs a specific function. You can add these widgets in sidebars also known as widget-ready areas on your web page. WordPress widgets were originally created to provide a simple and easy-to-use way of giving design and structure control of the WordPress theme to the user. and how many can be attributed to the local camps, but I think it’s fair to say that both of those factors played a role in bringing so many more people (455!) into the WordPress and WordCamp community.

These numbers are all taken from the stored WordCamp ticket data with duplicates stripped out.

455!
- jrf 5:10 am on July 8, 2018
  
  Based on those same numbers and with the same false reasoning, you can also say that the switch to city-based WordCamps has caused 301 people who were interested in WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. NL, to no longer attend.
  - Chantal Coolsma 6:48 am on July 8, 2018
    
    Lots of tickets sold at WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. Rotterdam were bought by the same companies who also attended other local WordCamps. So the numbers don’t say anything.
    - Hugh Lashbrooke 11:53 am on July 8, 2018
      
      That’s why I removed all the duplicate entries first 🙂
  - Hugh Lashbrooke 11:58 am on July 8, 2018
    
    I suppose you could say that, yeah (although a certain amount of attendee churn is to be expected at every WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more.).
    
    My personal feeling about that, however, is that if the main reason that someone decided not to attend a local camp is because it didn’t have the name “WordCamp The Netherlands”, then I would think that it’s safe to assume that they would rather have their cool event with their friends, rather than actually be a part of the WordPress community. I’m not saying that’s necessarily true of course, but if someone actively decided not to attend a camp purely because of the change in name like that, then I would definitely be questioning their motives for even attending in the first place.
    - jrf 1:33 pm on July 8, 2018
      
      As I stated above, both are false reasoning.
      
      However, the fact that you call the change from a national WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. to city-based WordCamps, a “name change” means that you really have no understanding of what the difference is and why it is important.
      
      If this is the attitude of the people the Dutch WordPress community leadership have to talk with, I truly truly am scared for the future of the WordPress community as a whole.
      - Hugh Lashbrooke 6:30 am on July 9, 2018
        
        You’re right – sorry – I was over-simplifying it for the sake of argument. I know that it’s more than just a name change – that’s why I feel so strongly about this too.
        
        I’m curious to know why you think the numbers I quoted above are “false reasoning” – numbers like that are one of the few quantifiable metrics we have for WordCamps and they do really help to give us an idea of how things are going.
        
        Pieter Daalder 9:43 am on July 10, 2018
        
        My guess: because there are no facts/statistics to backup this reasoning.
        
        Fact: WCNL 2016 sold 449 tickets.
        Fact: All Local Dutch WordCamps sold 603 unique tickets.
        
        Without any other information you cannot make any correct assumptions on the behaviour of the visitors of any of these events. You might as well extrapolate this the way Yvette did a little bit more down this page:
        
        WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. The Netherlands managed to grow its number of attendees from 240 to 407 attendees from 2015 to 2016. That is a 170% increase, without the help of the events widgetWidget A WordPress Widget is a small block that performs a specific function. You can add these widgets in sidebars also known as widget-ready areas on your web page. WordPress widgets were originally created to provide a simple and easy-to-use way of giving design and structure control of the WordPress theme to the user.. Had we organized another WordCamp NL instead of 4 regional camps, repeating this 170% increase, especially WITH the help of the events widget could very well have happened. We might very well have had 690 unique individuals attending.
        
        Each time these comparisons are being made they make no sense at all, since you’re comparing completely different events, and because of that also completely different visitors.
Yvette Sonneveld 9:05 pm on July 7, 2018

Hi Hugh,
I don’t think we have met in person, yet. I am fairly new to the community but I have spoken at 2 WordCamps in The Netherlands 2017 (Nijmegen and Utrecht), and I am part of the organizing team of WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. Utrecht.

While I absolutely see the benefits of building local communities and I love for our community to grow, I share the concerns of many others.

Can we do a shift of perspective with regards to the numbers for a moment?

1: WordCamp The Netherlands managed to grow its number of attendees from 240 to 407 attendees from 2015 to 2016. That is a 170% increase, without the help of the events widgetWidget A WordPress Widget is a small block that performs a specific function. You can add these widgets in sidebars also known as widget-ready areas on your web page. WordPress widgets were originally created to provide a simple and easy-to-use way of giving design and structure control of the WordPress theme to the user.. Had we organized another WordCamp NL instead of 4 regional camps, repeating this 170% increase, especially WITH the help of the events widget could very well have happened. We might very well have had 690 unique individuals attending.

2: I have been wondering whether any US local WordCamp “competes” with 5 other WordCamps in a 125 mile radius. After all, a radius like that from the center of The Netherlands includes cities abroad like Antwerpen and Cologne. And all of these WordCamps have drawn attendees from each other’s communities.

Another concern, voiced by several longtime community members, and not pointed out in this thread. yet, is that the community is starting to feel fragmented. Before, the national event was an event people planned for long ahead. Made it a priority, because once a year, they all got together and made stuff happen. With local events only, that won’t happen ever again. As much as we all can accomplish with virtual communication, we need that time together to keep relations strong and resilient. If only every other year: One year of local WordCamps and one year of 1 central national WordCamp.

Lastly, as much as I get excited about the increased reach, I don’t see a short-term solution to the strain on sponsor budgets, the hunt for a good mix of experienced speakers to ensure value for attendees and new speakers to offer them an opportunity to gain experience and basically just the same for volunteers (enough experienced volunteers to keep things running smoothly and attracting enough new ones).

Looking forward to continuing this conversation and finding a solution that benefits everyone.
- Dave Loodts 8:10 am on July 9, 2018
  
  I really think that The Netherlands has an unique opportunity to upscale the format of a WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more., meaning creating topic based WordCamps. Or one track in the WordCamp with one central topic.
  The nation wide WordCamp can be general, because the amount of attendees it will attract enough sponsors. But for the smaller city based WordCamps in smaller countries, it’s harder to find sponsors because of the fact that the audience now is too ‘general’ for a sponsor. (From the point of view of the sponsor: there are so many conferences and most of them topic based) .
  Also for finding speakers, topic based can be a good solution.
  - Chantal Coolsma 8:18 am on July 9, 2018
    
    I would rather go for one nationwide WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. NL and more WordCamp meetupsMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook.. Most meetups in the Netherlands are pretty big and could be seen as “WordCamp Light”. For example the WordPress meetupMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. Rotterdam had several meetups with about 100 attendees. That is half the size of WordCamp Rotterdam.
    
    If you want to grow the community, supporting the meetups on a local/regional level would help more. It is also possible to organise meetups with a specific subject. For example WooCommerce, SEO, etc.
- Monique Dubbelman 10:06 am on July 9, 2018
  
  Totally agree with what @yvettesonneveld says here:
  
  Lastly, as much as I get excited about the increased reach, I don’t see a short-term solution to the strain on sponsor budgets, the hunt for a good mix of experienced speakers to ensure value for attendees and new speakers to offer them an opportunity to gain experience and basically just the same for volunteers (enough experienced volunteers to keep things running smoothly and attracting enough new ones).
  
  I think the arguments given about the increased number of first-time attendees can’t be looked at in isolation. The problems with getting enough sponsor budget, experienced (international) speakers, organisers and volunteers should be taken into account too.
  
  Besides that, it’s not only about new attendees, it’s also about keeping things interesting enough for returning attendees too.
  
  At last, as the increase of first-timers coincides with the event widgetWidget A WordPress Widget is a small block that performs a specific function. You can add these widgets in sidebars also known as widget-ready areas on your web page. WordPress widgets were originally created to provide a simple and easy-to-use way of giving design and structure control of the WordPress theme to the user. in the dashboard, it’s hard to tell whether having local WordCamps is the (sole) reason for the increase. There are a lot of first-timers attending MeetupsMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. too, and when asked for a reason to attend, seeing it in the dashboard widget has been an important reason.
Wouter Postma 10:09 am on July 9, 2018

Having one WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. for the whole country makes way more sense to me than to have four separate city based events (of which I was only able to attend one in the past year). This will ensure having a big WP event in The Netherlands, instead of having a few small(er) ones.

However, to me that doesn’t mean it has to be in the same city (e.g. Utrecht being a central location) every year. If there is one big Dutch WordPress event every year, I think people are more than willing to travel to the other side of our country to attend it – at least I would be.

What could be an option is to have one Dutch WordCamp every year, and move the event to a different city for every edition, like WCEUWCEU WordCamp Europe. The European flagship WordCamp event. is doing.
- Hugh Lashbrooke 6:29 am on July 10, 2018
  
  This will ensure having a big WP event in The Netherlands, instead of having a few small(er) ones.
  
  I think this is where one of the big differences in expectations lies – from our perspective (at WordCamp CentralWordCamp Central Website for all WordCamp activities globally. https://central.wordcamp.org includes a list of upcoming and past camp with links to each.), a few smaller camps are more preferable to a single big WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more.. If there is a central larger WordCamp, then that would be considered a regional camp that runs alongside and complements the local camps.
  
  Why do you feel that one big event is better than multiple smaller ones? What makes a big event inherently better? I’m genuinely curious, because from my perspective more camps results in more organisers, more volunteers and more attendees – all of which are great for the WordCamp program and WordPress community as a whole.
  - Marcel Bootsman 6:59 am on July 10, 2018
    
    because from my perspective more camps results in more organisers, more volunteers and more attendees
    
    You are forgetting the sponsors. And what we see in The Netherlands is increased difficulties getting sponsors on board for the local WordCamps.
    - Hugh Lashbrooke 7:26 am on July 10, 2018
      
      In fairness – that’s a problem that the majority of the WordCamps around the world are facing right now, whether they have other camps nearby or not. So that isn’t an issue that is unique to NL, or even to camps that have plenty of other camps nearby.
      
      An easy way to combat that, however, is to make efforts to reduce the budgets for local WordCamps. I know that can be tough, but as a long time organiser (and someone who works with many WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. budgets all over the world) I know that there are always plenty of things that can be done to reduce WordCamp costs – cheaper venue, cheaper catering, less swag, cheaper after party, volunteers handling video, etc., and many other things that most organisers are always apprehensive about doing.
      
      Most of th e budget that I’ve worked on over the past couple of years could easily have been drastically reduced had there been a need for it, and if the organisers just put in a bit of effort to make it happen.
      - Yvette Sonneveld 8:42 am on July 10, 2018
        
        Then maybe, just maybe, with the increase in the number of WordCamps, we are spreading not only the available organizers, speakers, and volunteers but also the sponsor budgets too thin?
    - jrf 7:26 am on July 10, 2018
      
      Not just the sponsors, as a speaker on which *all* of these WordCamps call, I’m not longer on-board either.
      The time investment I need to make to create *four* new talks which I cannot re-use is just not worth it.
      - Hugh Lashbrooke 7:30 am on July 10, 2018
        
        Why do you feel that you need to speak at all of the Dutch WordCamps? We would much rather see different speakers at each camp – putting that kind of pressure on speakers is just unnecessary, and also partly defeats the point of having more camps in the country.
        
        If individual communities are struggling to find more speakers, then we have training materials to help with that and people on had to help organisers with how to run training sessions like this.
        
        jrf 7:43 am on July 10, 2018
        
        Why do you feel that you need to speak at all of the Dutch WordCamps?
        
        I don’t feel the need, nor am willing to.
        
        The organizers reach out to me (and some others) explicitly as they are keen to have some experienced international speakers on the program.
        In my experience, from an organizers perspective, having some reasonable well-known solid speakers on the program is good for ticket sales + getting sponsors.
        
        Hugh Lashbrooke 7:52 am on July 10, 2018
        
        This (once again) highlights one of the big difference between what the WCNL team is expecting and what we are expecting at Central. A WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. speaker line-up consisting of 100% local (and even brand new) speakers is far more preferable to filling up a speaker roster with international speakers. We highlight this in every WordCamp orientation meeting we have and constantly emphasise it with organisers all over the world.
        
        What is becoming increasingly apparent here, is that the WCNL team has very different expectations for what a local WordCamp is, from what we at Central define it as. This seems to be the main source of the issue here – it seems that what you’re looking for is very different to how WordCamps actually work.
        
        jrf 8:05 am on July 10, 2018
        
        What is local though in this context ?
        
        Seriously: city-based WordCamps in NL is like saying that WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. NewYork should be abolished and they should have WordCamps in each burrow.
        
        So that would mean there would be a WordCamp Staten Island, WordCamp Queens, WordCamp Brooklyn, WordCamp The Bronx.
        
        And “speakers should be local” translates to those same burrows in that case.
        
        https://brilliantmaps.com/empty-netherlands/
        
        I live in The Netherlands. Each of the (city-based) WordCamps in the Netherlands is within a 100 mile radius. How does that not make me a “local” ?
        
        Yvette Sonneveld 8:42 am on July 10, 2018
        
        Totally agree with @jrf here, and mentioned the same thing further up in the thread, too.
  - jrf 7:38 am on July 10, 2018
    
    Why do you feel that one big event is better than multiple smaller ones?
    
    Simple: because it brings people together. Which IMHO is what community is all about.
    
    Things feels so fragmented now with the regional WordCamps, it is killing the community which had been carefully build by the WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. NL team.
    
    I – like a lot of WC veterans – am not going to WordCamps for the content, I’m going for the networking, aka the “hallway track” and what I see is that the city-wide WordCamps are attracting lots of newbies – who are of course very welcome -, but more experienced people now stay home or only go to one of the WordCamps, which makes the city-wide WCs nowhere near as interesting from a networking perspective.
    
    The balance of having a good mix of experienced people and newbies at the WordCamps feels off.
    
    All in all, I’d much rather go to one WordCamp in NL a year and know that I’ll have the chance to catch up with most of the community, veterans and newbies alike.
    - Hugh Lashbrooke 7:45 am on July 10, 2018
      
      See my comment just below regarding the idea of smaller camps over larger ones.
      
      what I see is that the city-wide WordCamps are attracting lots of newbies – who are of course very welcome -, but more experienced people now stay home or only go to one of the WordCamps
      
      That makes me sad – experienced WordPress users actively choosing to stay away from WordCamps because there “lots of newbies” there is really disappointing. I would go so far as to say that that’s pretty much the antithesis of what the WordPress community is all about.
      
      Forgive my cynicism here (and please correct me if I’m wrong, which I hope I am!), but it sounds like what you’re really looking for is a place where you can hang out with your WordPress friends without being bothered by too many newbies who haven’t been in the community as long as you have. That sounds harsh, but that’s the general sentiment that I’m getting from many of the comments on this post so far. Like I said – I hope that’s wrong though.
      - jrf 7:50 am on July 10, 2018
        
        experienced WordPress users actively choosing to stay away from WordCamps because there “lots of newbies” there is really disappointing
        
        That’s not what I said. Please do not confuse cause and effect.
      - Chantal Coolsma 7:59 am on July 10, 2018
        
        I am not staying away because of newbies. I am staying away because most local WordCamps have the same line-up of speakers. It feels a bit like visiting the same WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. 3 times a year. It is getting too much the same.
        
        I did the speakers at WC Rotterdam this year and we really tried to search for different talks than there were on the other local WCs.
        
        Hugh Lashbrooke 8:02 am on July 10, 2018
        
        I am staying away because most local WordCamps have the same line-up of speakers.
        
        That’s a pity, but it’s a situation that we have put together a solution for. Many communities around the world are struggling with getting new speakers to sign up, and we’ve found that running training sessions like that has made a massive difference to the available speakers.
        
        I would also repeat, however, that there’s no expectation from our side that you attend all of the Dutch WordCamps anyway, so it’s fine if you only attend the only closest to you.
        
        Chantal Coolsma 8:06 am on July 10, 2018
        
        We just don’t have that much quality speakers in the Netherlands. Think about the size of our country. We are not the size of the USA.
        
        Hugh Lashbrooke 8:26 am on July 10, 2018
        
        Hardly any countries are the same size as the USA – mine certainly isn’t 🙂
        
        We just don’t have that much quality speakers in the Netherlands.
        
        I’ve lost count of how many organisers have said exactly that same thing to me, but then after putting in some work to find and train community members in public speaking, they end up with a surprisingly large source of speakers for all their events.
        
        Yvette Sonneveld 8:27 am on July 10, 2018
        
        @hugh: (linking does not seem to work)
        I appreciate the efforts around attracting new speakers and, like all of us participating in this conversation, love to help nurture new speakers. However, to attract an audience, an event needs a lineup of speakers with a reputation. Like music festivals have big names to attract the crowd and lesser known bands to gain traction, that same principle applies to industry events as well.
        
        Hugh Lashbrooke 9:50 am on July 10, 2018
        
        I would disagree @yvettesonneveld 🙂 I mean, I agree for events in a general sense, but with WordCamps (and WordPress in general) we actively try to stay away from the idea of certain people being rock stars or anything like that.
        
        I know having well-known people can attract more attendees because that’s just how people think when it comes to all types of events, but with WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. we have always tried to get away from that idea as much as we can. The only way we can break the perception of famous people making an event better, is by going out of our way to make sure that we don’t treat speaker line-ups like they need to have well-known people in them. I like to think that we have successfully done that for most WordCamps and that, by doing so, we are actively breaking the perception that rock stars make for better speakers.
        
        Once again – this is highlighting another area where the WCNL team’s expectations are different to ours – this is becoming very clear to me now.
- Andrea Middleton 1:22 pm on July 10, 2018
  
  I agree that if the goal is to minimize effort for a group of experienced volunteers and maximize the efficiency of their efforts, then one centralized WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. seems compelling. The most efficient way to build software that powers over 30% of the web, one might also argue, would be to have a limited number of highly skilled developers and designers, working together in a private environment, to deliver their user base the new/refined features and tools they think are needed. 🙂
  
  That’s not how WordPress is built, though — WordPress is built and maintained by thousands of people, making large and small contributions of code, ideas, bug reports, translations, forum responses, documentation, etc. It’s messy, and can seem highly inefficient viewed from a certain perspective. However, it’s gotten us this far and isn’t likely to change anytime soon.
  
  Because WordCamps are an extension of the open sourceOpen Source Open Source denotes software for which the original source code is made freely available and may be redistributed and modified. Open Source **must be** delivered via a licensing model, see GPL. project, we ask our community organizers to follow open source methods. This includes going against what, from a certain perspective, might seem to be an efficient way to do things — just like the way open source itself can seem messy and wasteful.
  
  Many local community events (WordCamps and meetupsMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook.) provide more of a benefit than they do an inconvenience, because every community events is a friendly and (relatively) easy introduction to WordPress (and open source) for new contributors, which also offer lots of opportunities for people to participate and contribute for the first time. This helps build the contributor base that serves both the Dutch WordPress community as well as the global WordPress community. The connections that community members make at our in-person events make it easier for people to “stick with” WordPress, even when something they’re trying to do is unusually challenging.
  
  What could be an option is to have one Dutch WordCamp every year, and move the event to a different city for every edition, like WCEUWCEU WordCamp Europe. The European flagship WordCamp event. is doing.
  
  WordCamp Europe is only held in host cities with experienced local WordCamp organizing teams, and to follow that model, we’d need what we’re developing right now — multiple cities organizing local annual WordCamps.
Wouter Postma 7:29 am on July 10, 2018

Thanks for your reply, @hlashbrooke

In The Netherlands we have a lot of active, local WP MeetupsMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook.. Do I understand correctly that – from your perspective – our WordCamps should become more like meetups? Because I fear that is what will happen, as it is increasingly difficult for organizers to find good speakers, enough sponsors, etc.

A bigger event also makes it much easier to distinguish a WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. from a MeetupMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook..

A bigger event attracts (more) quality speakers, bigger sponsors. It means that we (the Dutch WP community) don’t have to choose which camps to attend. If there’s one event per year, I will make sure to blockBlock Block is the abstract term used to describe units of markup that, composed together, form the content or layout of a webpage using the WordPress editor. The idea combines concepts of what in the past may have achieved with shortcodes, custom HTML, and embed discovery into a single consistent API and user experience. my calendar so I can attend ;-).
- Hugh Lashbrooke 7:40 am on July 10, 2018
  
  Do I understand correctly that – from your perspective – our WordCamps should become more like meetupsMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook.?
  
  Not at all – it sounds like Dutch meetups are growing really well as they are! Meetups are, generally speaking, events that happen on a single evening, while WordCamps last a full day or multiple days. They are notably different of course.
  
  What I am saying is that I feel that 4 events that each have 100 attendees would be for more preferable to a single event that has 400 attendees. This would mean that you would have more organisers, more volunteers and more speakers across all the camps, which means that there are more people contributing to WordPress through the course of the year (organising, volunteering and speaking are all considered significant contributions to the project).
  
  When we are pushing for more local camps, we aren’t expecting that everyone from the country attends all of them – you’re welcome to do that of course, but that’s not an expectation from our side at all. Attending the camp nearest to you is just fine.
  
  You might think this strange (and I think this is the main sticking point between what the WCNL team and WC Central are expecting), but having attended many WordCamps of different sizes, I can say without doubt that the smaller camps are far more enjoyable and far more beneficial for my community involvement and personal development. I thoroughly enjoy smaller WordCamps (i.e. less than 150 people) much more than larger WordCamps for the simple fact that the sense of community at smaller events is significantly more enhanced and you can actually connect with people properly when there are less folks around.
  - jrf 7:48 am on July 10, 2018
    
    I think part of the problem is that you seem to value quantity (of WordCamps, attendees, volunteers etc) over quality, while a lot of people in the NL community see things the other way around.
    
    Or to put it in another way: I’d much rather have one new contributor to a project who stays and keeps contributing, than twenty people who only pop their head in once and never return.
    - Hugh Lashbrooke 7:55 am on July 10, 2018
      
      I think part of the problem is that you seem to value quantity (of WordCamps, attendees, volunteers etc) over quality, while a lot of people in the NL community see things the other way around.
      
      I think this is the heart of the issue here. I wouldn’t agree that quantity does not mean quality of course (as that is an over-simplification of it), but the general issue is that the Dutch community organisers have a very different view of what a WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. is compared to how we define and operate the WordCamp program. This is the coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. of where all of this disagreement is coming from.
    - Chantal Coolsma 8:02 am on July 10, 2018
      
      Or to put it in another way: I’d much rather have one new contributor to a project who stays and keeps contributing, than twenty people who only pop their head in once and never return.
      
      Exactly!
      - Hugh Lashbrooke 8:09 am on July 10, 2018
        
        When I talk about contributors in this sense, I’m talking specifically about organisers, volunteers and speakers – those things are considered hugely important contributions to the WordPress project.
Chantal Coolsma 8:52 am on July 10, 2018

My idea for the Netherlands:

Have one nation-wide WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. a year. 500-1000 attendees at a large location. 3 days (including contributor dayContributor Day Contributor Days are standalone days, frequently held before or after WordCamps but they can also happen at any time. They are events where people get together to work on various areas of https://make.wordpress.org/ There are many teams that people can participate in, each with a different focus. https://2017.us.wordcamp.org/contributor-day/ https://make.wordpress.org/support/handbook/getting-started/getting-started-at-a-contributor-day/.) with talks, workshops, contributing. Get more people to join the community. This WordCamp can swap cities just like WCEUWCEU WordCamp Europe. The European flagship WordCamp event..

Have more city-based meetupsMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. (around 100 attendees) backed by Community Support so they can arrange a good venue (with the backing of community sponsors). A city-based meetupMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. is 1 day, with talks half a day and contributing/answering questions to newbies half a day. For example on a Saturday. No entrance fee.

Smaller meetups could also exist and have meetups on weekday evenings with less attendees.
- Sjoerd Blom 11:47 am on July 10, 2018
  
  It’s about time that WordCamps evolve into a new version. WordCamps should just cover an area and not an area with a particular number of inhabitants, just because the “old world” and the “new world” are completely different when it comes to demographic concepts and figures. If we keep going on like this, we may certainly kill a local or a national WordPress community, because sooner or later people will loose their interest in WordCamps. And when the number of attendees is decreasing, sponsors will loose their interest too, reconsidering twice to sponsor an other or a next WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more., thus resulting in killing a WordCamp.
  
  The discussion is focusing too much on the figures. The people discussing here are a representation of the real community, they know too well the feelings of the locals. This community is bound by an enormous desire to create great things while being a small geographical area. And may be that is just blinding others, because they don’t see the enormous efforts that are being made to create a great event. Let’s face it: we can go on with this discussion for ever and ever, but the points of view the Europeans and Community differ too much because of the different cultures. I know there are Europeans in the Community team, but do their views match with what Community wants?
  
  May be we’re still trying to stick to traditions and keep holding up the guidelines that were originally set up. So, why can’t we just bury the hatchets and develop a WordCamp v2.0 together? From scratch. Just give it a chance! I’m willing to participate.
Andrea Middleton 1:19 pm on July 10, 2018

Thanks for this report, @mbootsman, and to all the people who gave input on it (@defries, @tacoverdo, @vertizio, @boemedia, @buxert, @basbrader, @rubsel, @jeroenrotty, @wendyweel, @taeke, @simonvdsteen, @lucp). It’s great to do this kind of introspection as our community and program continues to grow and evolve.

From what I’m reading in the original post and in the comments on it, the WordPress community in the Netherlands is experiencing some of the growing pains that we’ve seen in other parts of the world as a previously small, tight-knit community opens up and expands. It’s not dissimilar to how early employees of a company feel nostalgic for the days when there were only 30 people at the company, I think — or when longtime WordPress contributors reminisce about the days before there were contributor teams and everybody active on the project just knew everybody else. 🙂 We humans like our small groups, but because open sourceOpen Source Open Source denotes software for which the original source code is made freely available and may be redistributed and modified. Open Source **must be** delivered via a licensing model, see GPL. projects depend on a “bazaar” of contributors, our work is to be constantly opening and expanding, welcoming and including.

The fact that the Events WidgetWidget A WordPress Widget is a small block that performs a specific function. You can add these widgets in sidebars also known as widget-ready areas on your web page. WordPress widgets were originally created to provide a simple and easy-to-use way of giving design and structure control of the WordPress theme to the user.’s launch coincided with the final shift to city-based WordCamps back in 2016 is certainly inconvenient for those of us who are fond of “clean” data! It’ll be interesting to see what happens in the next few years, as local communities in the Netherlands continue to mature.

The way our program addresses some of the difficulties listed in the original post is by leveraging the growth that’s “causing” the problem — more community events provide more opportunity for more people to become involved in community events, and those people bring more sponsorship leads, more speaker recommendations or applications, more friends who learn how fun it is to volunteer at our events, and more new participants/attendees in our events. New participants, volunteers, speakers, sponsors, and organizers will result in more variation and less overlap.

A big loss for Rotterdam and small profits for the other WordCamps show us that for the next editions it could become more and more difficult to get a healthy financial result for all of them.

I am not inclined to take a pessimistic view based on the current track record. 75% of the referenced events ran a surplus, so I don’t think we need to declare a state of emergency just yet. 😉

The most compelling success story I’m seeing develop in the Netherlands since 2016 is how many new leadership roles have been created through increased opportunities for contributions at our multiple events. I think this will benefit the Dutch WordPress community in ways completely unrelated to WordCamps — I predict we’ll see increased participation in multiple contributor teams throughout the project, and I’m excited about it.
- Hugh Lashbrooke 7:52 am on July 12, 2018
  
  more community events provide more opportunity for more people to become involved in community events
  
  I predict we’ll see increased participation in multiple contributor teams throughout the project, and I’m excited about it.
  
  This can’t overstated enough – more events means more people contributing to WordPress in the events space, which has a knock-on effect for other contribution teams gaining more people. This is something that we have seen time and time again all over the world and the Netherlands will be no exception to this. It’s one of the things that makes the WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. program so exciting 🙂
  - Sjoerd Blom 9:46 am on July 12, 2018
    
    Are you willing to share this information with us?
    I’m curious: where is this increase of number of events and increase of number of participants taking place? And in which time frame?
    And without being prejudiced: what are the other figures, are there any decreases? Sure there are WordCamps that have been held only once. Why haven’t these WordCamps a follow up?
    - Hugh Lashbrooke 9:51 am on July 12, 2018
      
      It’s more of a general trend and, given the way the systems are structured all across WordPress.orgWordPress.org The community site where WordPress code is created and shared by the users. This is where you can download the source code for WordPress core, plugins and themes as well as the central location for community conversations and organization. https://wordpress.org/, not something that is as quantifiable to track in the way that you’re asking. It is, however, very clear to see how communities get more and more involved in the WordPress project as a whole as they are given more opportunities to get involved. Aside from the fact that we’ve seen this happen, I think it’s fairly logical that giving more opportunities for contribution, results in more contributions.
      
      I’m not sure what you’re getting at with your questions exactly, but to say that limiting the opportunity for involvement is a good thing seems like it could be generally rather short-sighted perhaps?
      - Dave Loodts 11:20 am on July 12, 2018
        
        Very good questions of @sjoerdblom. Would like to see those numbers too. Answers like ‘it’s a trend’ are very blurry.
        
        I think it’s fairly logical that giving more opportunities for contribution, results in more contributions.
        
        Absolutely, but you need (more) experienced volunteers to achieve that, keep it rolling and keep it sustainable for themself (mental and financial). And apparently some of these people are not totally satisfied at the moment. Growing pains? Maybe that’s the keyword for the NL-community, could be. But as it seems now, more city based general WordCamps won’t keep these people happy (at the moment) in such small country without a national WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more.. A community is not only the upper-funnel, it’s the whole funnel. I really believe that the most durable way of keeping a healthty community is to satisfy that mid and down funnel.
      - Sjoerd Blom 11:33 am on July 12, 2018
        
        If you say things are “a trend”, you can only say this if you have figures to prove they are really a trend. Otherwise they are just useless statements, causing short-sighted views, especially on the upper-funnel (like @davelo says).
        We’re the community, the users, the organizers, the volunteers. We’re the ones who are the ones who are very very close to the mid and lower funnel. We see and hear things, new developments. Don’t just ignore that, because right now we feel that we’re being ignored. And for what reason?
        So, please substantiate those trends with real figures.
        
        Dave Loodts 12:26 pm on July 12, 2018
        
        As it is also a ‘trend’ that communities wants an overlapping WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more..